There has yet to be a significant analysis from a Mormon practitioner on the links between Freemasonry and and the Latter Day Saints. I’m hoping one is soon to come, but as with any research, its a long road.
Brigham Young and Joseph Smith (as well as Lorenzo Snow, John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff) not withstanding were both Freemasons and much of what they learned in lodge was re purposed into the Mormon practice. You start to see these links as you dig deeper under the skin and look at some of the ritual mechanics and ideas.
One idea stands out in this video from the Mormon church. Sure, the idea of temple building is common in many faiths, but its the practice of a certain temple that concerns us here. And, where Freemasonry concentrates on an internal temple, here we can see the work on the external temple manifestation.
Its an interesting video.
To my knowledge Joseph Smith was the only one involved in masonry. And he was kicked out after recieving his E.A. Degree. Masonic record does not show him to go any futher.
i would like to comment on my issues with Temple Mormonism vs
Freemasonic links Thereto. As i was raised Mormon, was a fervant Temple Goer, and Veil Worker for some years, add to that my study and open minded comparison of masonry and what was taken from it and re-fabricated and grafted into what became Temple mormonism; my comments amoung Mormons are especially not appreciated. Amoung the few Mormons who are also Masons;
i find their dual mindedness of the issue deeply disturbing.
I was excommunicated for “Apostacy” and labelled officially as a “Severe Threat to the Church”. Then they went to work ‘encouraging’ people on pain of disfellowshipment and or Excommunication not to discuss the matter with me. You could see the pained looks from people who desperately wanted to know why… but were so fearful as not to be seen in the same hall as me.
I am now, a very proud and devout Freemason, something i was working hard to achieve long before i was ex’d. And hoping to be installed in the East chair this year.
The truth about mormonisms dealings in and with Masonry, are yet to be fully disclosed, but i am confident of the facts born out so far that Joseph who began as a anti Mason, in a home where his father and older Brother Hyrum were Craft members, brought up in the area of the Morgan Affair;
will show that joseph WAS given Masonic secrets long before he became (relunctantly) a mason. his Brother hyrum, i am convinced did not go to his death with joseph out of Loyalty to his cause as much as he did not want to be left holding the bag.
All apologists aside; the truth is not so innocent as morons would like it to be. And i am sure that there are plenty more records held in the deep dark First Presidency Vault, which if they were to see the light of day would show any claim to innocence is wasted hyperbole.
Greetings to all Divine Beings…
There was a particular statement, mentioned by the last gentleman, that was very beautiful in which he stated:
“…the temple is a place of tranquility, it is a place of kindness, of love and light.”
So we can be, and indeed we are…
In’lakech
What's to look into? They ripped off and re-wrote a bunch of Masonic stuff and made it their own, sorta. It accomplishes the teaching of the esoterica of the LDS Church in the same way that a closed and cloistered group has always done: Symbols, allegorical stories and illustrations, geared to the neophyte, the newbie. All in plain sight, never teaching something you don't already know, no surprises… unless you expect angels to be in the Celestial Room when you get there. They probably won't be, but you never know.There is little in the Mormon's that is unique and new, unless one counts their scriptures, and I just can't come up with a good explanation about that… But, the ritual is Judeo-Christian mysticism hung on a Masonic framework of grips, words, signs and secret slogans that cosmically attract health and power.If ya want the deep stuff, go directly to the Second Endowment, if you can find anyone to talk about it. Find out about that, and ya got something interesting.
Michael, the original post came from something I published here: http://www.freemasoninformation.com/2009/03/why-mormons-build-re-build-solomons-temples/But the speculation comes from some minor study and discussion with members of the LDS church. but even in the ritual aspects, with their difference, the goal, in the Hermetic aspect, seems to suggest to me their similarity. Not a 1:1 but enough to say that it isn't dissimilar with their use of the rituals and symbolism, at least in my opinion. I think the argument could be made that Young and Smith brought their experience together from Masonry and evolved them into Mormonism. It almost seems like the religiouslizing of Masonry, becoming a unique American/Masonic religion. Definitely worth looking into more.
Bro. Staples,
Being a Mormon and Mason, I am curious as to what you meant by “Amoung the few Mormons who are also Masons;
i find their dual mindedness of the issue deeply disturbing.”
Michael, the original post came from something I published here: http://www.freemasoninformation.com/2009/03/why-mormons-build-re-build-solomons-temples/ But the speculation comes from some minor study and discussion with members of the LDS church. but even in the ritual aspects, with their difference, the goal, in the Hermetic aspect, seems to suggest to me their similarity. Not a 1:1 but enough to say that it isn't dissimilar with their use of the rituals and symbolism, at least in my opinion. I think the argument could be made that Young and Smith brought their experience together from Masonry and evolved them into Mormonism. It almost seems like the religiouslizing of Masonry, becoming a unique American/Masonic religion. Definitely worth looking into more.
Mike and spn357
First Mike.
Hi, Joseph personally recorded in his diary having been raised to the Sublime Degree. As well as the Nauvoo Masonic Lodge records. Many of the raisings were done enmasse’. Joseph in fact was allowed in the lodge and was allowed to be the Chaplain Before even recieving his EA Degree.
however, he did not attned or was very “Active” as a Mason.
It appears i have packed my Nauvoo Lodge record away… so i can’t give you a date for his Intiation, Passing or Raising. Should not be too hard to find the dates on the net or otherwise. He certainly was not kicked out since it was a “Mormon Lodge” and for all intents and puroses exsisted in His Town
by his permission, and all of its members were his subordinate officers, kicking him out would have resulted in them getting ex’d and blackwashed.
As well, as he ‘gave the first Temple Enowments’ in the Lodge room, which served many of his diverse officiating needs. In fact, on the ‘first Temple Endowments’, they took place immediately after a “Lodge meeting” when Joseph directed Brigham Young to redecorate the room for the prupose and then Gave the “Key Words Signs and Tokens of the holy priesthood’ to the 12, Telling BY he would not be able to finish the work and he would have to do so.
According to young.
spn;
What i had said about dual mindedness may have been conceptually difficult, for that i apologize. Having spent 20 years examining the Joseph Smith Mason connection, while striving to maintain that what the church has to say about it was if anything a pendulum ride. When i first found out and approached church authorities over it they were very sincere in saying “There is no connection as Joseph was not a Mason at all”… even as i held the Nauvoo record in my hands before them, all they could say was that as it was not “Authorised by the Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints”, it was therefore “spurious and dubious”, and i was recommended to drop the Issue as there are so many more “Uplifting and Faith promoting” works
which are approved by the church i had no need to go outside that.
luckily for me, the dams of data began to burst… and now to deny the fact
is beyond forgivable in the land of Ignorance.
That Joseph later set up The Coucil of 50, which was in the least
a “Clandestine Lodge” aka Kingdom of God, and is well recorded to have used ‘Masonic means of opening and closing to keep the right people in and the wrong people out’ is also well known now. His purpose in the C o 50, was setting up a new Temporal Government with its members not only as King Priests for which he literally divided up the American Continent and parcelled out to its members.
But that it Presided (in his theortical mind) over the Constitution of the United States… and as his revelations and statements later said to the members; “Ye are my Constitution”. of course, Under him, setting up for the first time in history Americas first Autocratic Theocrasy under his sole
‘Revelation’.
Far from being the innocent slayee in Nauvoo, the Masons who finally had had enough of what he was doing were functioning more to protect the
fledgling american government, than they were interested in killing a man who has Spoken face to face with God, hence trying to silence Gods Only voice as it were.
It may also be noted that joseph for years had nothing to do with Masonry, even though his older Brother Hyrum was a Past Master of a Regular lodge.
only when all of his “Councils were failing him” and he needed to re-establish a New Council which ‘He could trust” with his secrets, did he find masonry had the ‘Machinery’ he needed to foreward his plans.
one of his public laments was once your have to sware a person to secrecy you begin to loose a Friend. it is duly noted that the First Grand Lodge of Illinios, was founded by Mormons. The 2 Mormons who did so, had the sole desire to set it up so that Illinois Masonry would be maleable to Josephs whims, and it appears, that they may also have thought as they had thus set up the Grand Lodge from which Nauvoo got its Charter, and hence Joseph
recieved his degrees, he would thus have to be maleable to them.
It has been commented that once Nauvoo lost its charter, and by a distant look the somewhat “Irregular ” way in which the GL og IL was established that it be shut down and “Regularly” re-restablished. However, it appears some thought that overkill, and it did not happen, and gladly Masonry has not proven to need such.
Anyway. the Basic boildown is, been there, done that. far from being an Organisation needing Josephs sanction for validity… ie his statement that
“Freemasonry was taken from the True Priesthood but had gone Apostate and His True Priesthood would render it needless”. Freemasonry, will long out live and outshine Joseph and his ‘work’. After having been ex’d, over simply “believing” Joseph Smith was a polygamist, not because i was a practitioner. Freemasonry has alot more to offer than the former group.
Certainly alot less to hide, deny and or apologize for… IMO.
James
Good link
http://www.mastermason.com/bridgeportlodge181/MORMON8.HTM
Are you speaking from sure knowledge, or guesswork when it comes to the similarities between The Church's temple ceremonies and the Standard Work of the Blue Lodge? Having walked both sides of that particular street, I can speak with some authority:There are many connections, but the most notable is that there was a Square and Compasses along with the Angel Moroni on the Nauvoo Temple, and Jos. Smith would have preferred to be Grand Master, rather than Prophet.The Signs and Grips are almost exactly the same as Masonic Ritual. Dressing of the candidates is similar as well, with aprons, shifting clothing items from one shoulder to another, and so on. The ceremony, however, has a completely different focus. There is a complicated preparation ceremony that is NOT Masonic, but is a washing and annointing and blessing that prepares the individual to enter into the next part of the ritual, the instructions of the degrees.I'm interested in what video you are referring to.
Are you speaking from sure knowledge, or guesswork when it comes to the similarities between The Church's temple ceremonies and the Standard Work of the Blue Lodge? Having walked both sides of that particular street, I can speak with some authority:There are many connections, but the most notable is that there was a Square and Compasses along with the Angel Moroni on the Nauvoo Temple, and Jos. Smith would have preferred to be Grand Master, rather than Prophet.The Signs and Grips are almost exactly the same as Masonic Ritual. Dressing of the candidates is similar as well, with aprons, shifting clothing items from one shoulder to another, and so on. The ceremony, however, has a completely different focus. There is a complicated preparation ceremony that is NOT Masonic, but is a washing and annointing and blessing that prepares the individual to enter into the next part of the ritual, the instructions of the degrees.I'm interested in what video you are referri
Michael, the original post came from something I published here: http://ep9.f3a.mwp.accessdomain.com/2009/03/why-mormons-build-re-build-solomons-temples/But the speculation comes from some minor study and discussion with members of the LDS church. but even in the ritual aspects, with their difference, the goal, in the Hermetic aspect, seems to suggest to me their similarity. Not a 1:1 but enough to say that it isn't dissimilar with their use of the rituals and symbolism, at least in my opinion. I think the argument could be made that Young and Smith brought their experience together from Masonry and evolved them into Mormonism. It almost seems like the religiouslizing of Masonry, becoming a unique American/Masonic religion. Definitely worth looking into more.
What's to look into? They ripped off and re-wrote a bunch of Masonic stuff and made it their own, sorta. It accomplishes the teaching of the esoterica of the LDS Church in the same way that a closed and cloistered group has always done: Symbols, allegorical stories and illustrations, geared to the neophyte, the newbie. All in plain sight, never teaching something you don't already know, no surprises… unless you expect angels to be in the Celestial Room when you get there. They probably won't be, but you never know.There is little in the Mormon's that is unique and new, unless one counts their scriptures, and I just can't come up with a good explanation about that… But, the ritual is Judeo-Christian mysticism hung on a Masonic framework of grips, words, signs and secret slogans that cosmically attract health and power.If ya want the deep stuff, go directly to the Second Endowment, if you can find anyone to talk about it. Find out about that, and ya got something interesting.
What's to look into? They ripped off and re-wrote a bunch of Masonic stuff and made it their own, sorta. It accomplishes the teaching of the esoterica of the LDS Church in the same way that a closed and cloistered group has always done: Symbols, allegorical stories and illustrations, geared to the neophyte, the newbie. All in plain sight, never teaching something you don't already know, no surprises… unless you expect angels to be in the Celestial Room when you get there. They probably won't be, but you never know.There is little in the Mormon's that is unique and new, unless one counts their scriptures, and I just can't come up with a good explanation about that… But, the ritual is Judeo-Christian mysticism hung on a Masonic framework of grips, words, signs and secret slogans that cosmically attract health and power.If ya want the deep stuff, go directly to the Second Endowment, if you can find anyone to talk about it. Find out about that, and ya got something intere
Michael, I think your spot on in what you said, the difficulty is working the proofs. But i do think your spot on the monty that it is the manifestation of the mysticism in a practice system.. Literally a religious Freemasonry. The challenge, it seems, is pulling any admission or confirmation from the LDS church, as most of the "connections" have been severed as to lineage, instead happening in a vacuum. A friend (and brother) has threatened to write something on the subject from his dual world position, but its difficult to corroborate everything.
Michael, the original post came from something I published here: http://ep9.f3a.mwp.accessdomain.com/2009/03/why-mormons-build-re-build-solomons-temples/But the speculation comes from some minor study and discussion with members of the LDS church. but even in the ritual aspects, with their difference, the goal, in the Hermetic aspect, seems to suggest to me their similarity. Not a 1:1 but enough to say that it isn't dissimilar with their use of the rituals and symbolism, at least in my opinion. I think the argument could be made that Young and Smith brought their experience together from Masonry and evolved them into Mormonism. It almost seems like the religiouslizing of Masonry, becoming a unique American/Masonic religion. Definitely worth looking into
Michael, I think your spot on in what you said, the difficulty is working the proofs. But i do think your spot on the monty that it is the manifestation of the mysticism in a practice system.. Literally a religious Freemasonry. The challenge, it seems, is pulling any admission or confirmation from the LDS church, as most of the "connections" have been severed as to lineage, instead happening in a vacuum. A friend (and brother) has threatened to write something on the subject from his dual world position, but its difficult to corroborate every
-Mike-
To my knowledge Joseph Smith was the only one involved in masonry. And he was kicked out after recieving his E.A. Degree. Masonic record does not show him to go any futher.
This is entirely incorrect. Joseph was born into a masonic family with his uncles, brother, and probably father being a freemason. In Nauvoo most Mormon men were made Masons and the the first five presidents of the LDS church were freemason. Joseph, was raised to the sublime degree of Master Mason and continued as an active participant in masonry till the end of his life when he was killed while giving the masonic sign of distress by a mob.
-JS-
The truth about mormonisms dealings in and with Masonry, are yet to be fully disclosed, but i am confident of the facts born out so far that Joseph who began as a anti Mason, in a home where his father and older Brother Hyrum were Craft members, brought up in the area of the Morgan Affair.
-CB-
I hope my brother will forgive my subtle disagreement. I think that Joseph was not an anti-mason but an anti-spurious mason. While Joseph did repeatedly caution Hyrum about the Masons I think he drew a distinction between speculative and spurious masonry and that this distinction is expressed in the PoGP.
-JS-
joseph WAS given Masonic secrets long before he became (relunctantly) a mason.
-CB-
Why do you think he became a mason reluctantly. This has not been my conclusion from my research. While I agree the reasons for him becoming a mason ARE complex, I am unsure why you would say he was reluctant.
-JS-
It is duly noted that the First Grand Lodge of Illinios, was founded by Mormons. The 2 Mormons who did so, had the sole desire to set it up so that Illinois Masonry would be maleable to Josephs whims …
-CB-
Really? I am familiar with one mormon in the founding of the GLoI but who was the second?
Clinton Bartholomew
Ann Arbor Fraternity Lodge #262
The link James provided seems to be broken. Here is the corrected link.
http://www.mastermason.com/bridgeportlodge181/mormon01.HTM
Note that Goodwin who wrote in 1920 was, I believe, the historian of the Grand Lodge of Utah and entirely against admitting Mormons into Utah lodges. Some of the accusations leveled by Goodwin in regard to the connection between Mormons and Masons are legitimate and to this day have not been rebutted Mormon apologist (probably because it is impossible to do so). However, on a few historical and interpretive items I would say that Goodwin is wrong. His occasional acerbic tone is also inappropriate though highly understandable given the butting of heads between the two groups from 1870-1940. Overall his book is a good read and a good primer on the subject though it is a bit dated.
For a more up to date treatment I would suggest Similarity of Priesthood in Masonry which can be found at the following address:
http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/dialogue&CISOPTR=17325&CISOSHOW=17324&REC=1
Clinton Bartholomew
Ann Arbor Fraternity Lodge #262